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  1. #111
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapowulf View Post
    I'm just going on what I have googled, and none of the material is very new. Oxidation of acetoin into diacetyl seems pretty well known. The document and quote I gave above remarks on "the reactivity of acetoin (under certain environmental conditions acetoin can be converted to diacetyl and vice versa)" and notes that "A slow increase in the amount of diacetyl formed during the study was noted, with a maximum of 16-18% recorded at 30 days." This was using amber glass storage at 5 degree C.
    I will make a point of asking again for clarification.

    But there is often confusion in processes. Making Acetoin (from Diacetyl) and handling it in a raw form is an entirely different process from when it is in it's final state, as an additive, existing, in a formulation.

    We did go over this with the lab and it was a directed question. Their response was that acetoin, if it is good quality, uncontaminated with Diacetyl, poses no danger and will not become Diacetyl during it's use in eliquid or food flavoring.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

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  3. #112
    Guru Vapowulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vangrl View Post
    Hey Ian, in light of this test coming out, i'm curious how your testing has gone? you mentioned you were going to test all your flavours, did many or any come back with AA&D?

    Also curious if you've ever had a FlavourArt flavour come back positive (assuming you've probably tested more than when you put this post up) ?

    thanks!
    Would like to know too.

    Hey vangrl, I noticed your question to Dr. F about FlavorArt on the other site, and saw he very deftly avoided answering it.

  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapowulf View Post
    Would like to know too.

    Hey vangrl, I noticed your question to Dr. F about FlavorArt on the other site, and saw he very deftly avoided answering it.
    haha ya I know!

    I feel because he's worked with them on so many occasions and he's such an advocate for A&D free juice, that he MUST have some knowledge in regards to my question. The question is why would he avoid the question? You'd think he'd be thrilled to promote an A&D free flavour supplier?

    I have my own feelings as to why he may not be answering...

  5. #114
    Guru Vapowulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vangrl View Post
    haha ya I know!

    I feel because he's worked with them on so many occasions and he's such an advocate for A&D free juice, that he MUST have some knowledge in regards to my question. The question is why would he avoid the question? You'd think he'd be thrilled to promote an A&D free flavour supplier?

    I have my own feelings as to why he may not be answering...
    Yup.
    And that other fellow Kurt you quoted pretty well summed it up: "My advise is for now avoid any creamy desert flavors. If they don't have DA they probably have AP."

  6. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapowulf View Post
    Yup.
    And that other fellow Kurt you quoted pretty well summed it up: "My advise is for now avoid any creamy desert flavors. If they don't have DA they probably have AP."
    well I'm not entirely sure that FA isn't free of A&D, but obviously I can't be sure. The one good thing about FA is you only need about 2-5% flavour, I rarely go above 3%.

    I'd be interested to know if any vendors have ever discovered AorD in any of FA flavours though, hence me asking Maple Leaf if he's tested more of their flavours. If even one of their flavours contained it then I'd be leery of the entire line, but as of yet I haven't heard about any tests coming out positive on FA

  7. #116
    Guru Vapowulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapowulf View Post
    I'm just going on what I have googled, and none of the material is very new. Oxidation of acetoin into diacetyl seems pretty well known. The document and quote I gave above remarks on "the reactivity of acetoin (under certain environmental conditions acetoin can be converted to diacetyl and vice versa)" and notes that "A slow increase in the amount of diacetyl formed during the study was noted, with a maximum of 16-18% recorded at 30 days." This was using amber glass storage at 5 degree C.
    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    I will make a point of asking again for clarification.

    But there is often confusion in processes. Making Acetoin (from Diacetyl) and handling it in a raw form is an entirely different process from when it is in it's final state, as an additive, existing, in a formulation.

    We did go over this with the lab and it was a directed question. Their response was that acetoin, if it is good quality, uncontaminated with Diacetyl, poses no danger and will not become Diacetyl during it's use in eliquid or food flavoring.
    I had the opportunity to ask Dr. Gillman from Enthalpy further about this, acetoin conversion to diacetyl, and whether steeping eliquid should be of any concern if it contains acetoin flavouring, and referred to the NIOSH document quoted above showing conversion up to 18%. He said...
    We have not seen any evidence that acetoin in e-liquids will convert to diacetyl and we have looked. The reference you sent related to the conversion of acetoin to diacetyl in the analytical trapping system. The ph in this trap is very acidic, this reaction does not occur in e-liquids
    So, basically what you said

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  9. #117
    Enthusiast Demixl's Avatar
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    Important broadcast,thank you for sharing

  10. #118
    Enthusiast Tryhardpls's Avatar
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    Already knew about this

 

 
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