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  1. #41
    Advanced Mentor Toronto_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_in_CH View Post
    @Toronto_Mike agree that it is somewhat ambiguous but there is a statement in section 6 of the proposal which does appear pretty clear even If it's subject to interpretation:

    "6. Proposed Regulatory Approach for Newly Deemed Tobacco Products

    "FDA also is soliciting comment on what FDA actions or regulatory approaches, if any, should be taken for proposed deemed tobacco products that are “new tobacco products” under section 910(a)(1) of the FD Act. A new tobacco product means “any tobacco product (including those products in test markets) that was not commercially marketed in the United States as of February 15, 2007; or any modification (including a change in design, any component, any part, or any constituent, including a smoke constituent, or in the content, delivery or form of nicotine, or any other additive or ingredient) of a tobacco product where the modified product was commercially marketed in the United States after February 15, 2007”"

    Now is "component" intended as a component of the ejuice or that a device is considered as a "component" in the "delivery" of the tobacco product???
    With that statement, an interpretation could cover anything. This statement has to be fought to the fullest possible extent. China will never submit their products to the US for authorization because they'll continue to export worldwide & to the US black market. Companies as large as Madvapers(example) with deep pockets could afford to get products authorized but mark my words they'll be exclusive & will ensure any competition will have an uphill battle to sell the same product that doesn't have the MADVAPE logo. (no offence to Madvape, just using the size of the company as an example)
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  3. #42
    Advanced Mentor amoca's Avatar
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    I think the whole point about the February. 2007 date is probably that there were no ecigarettes available at that time, therefore nothing could be grandfathered in. I could be wrong of course as I'm not sure when they were developed, and can't search on this iPad cause I can't see...except for the cigalike which according to someone now partnered with a tobacco company, says he created one in 1963. However, he can't prove it as there are no prototypes from that time period, just his schematics.
    Apologies because I may have this totally wrong...

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  5. #43
    Mentor Texasweekend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetalito View Post
    Here is an interesting watch. Makes me really angry! Gary Null's Documentary "Exposing FDA" http://m.facebook.com/story.php?stor...591=1001538908
    Your link was dead, or something was wrong, here is another. War on Health


    Owner
    Smoker's Revolution, Lethbridge Alberta.

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  7. #44
    Guru Vapowulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvamoca View Post
    I think the whole point about the February. 2007 date is probably that there were no ecigarettes available at that time, therefore nothing could be grandfathered in. I could be wrong of course as I'm not sure when they were developed, and can't search on this iPad cause I can't see...except for the cigalike which according to someone now partnered with a tobacco company, says he created one in 1963. However, he can't prove it as there are no prototypes from that time period, just his schematics.
    Apologies because I may have this totally wrong...
    February 15 2007 was the date the bill was introduced that would become the Tobacco Control Act.

  8. #45
    Guru Trainer Switcher's Avatar
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    FWIW folks I have been saying this since 2011, only to be ridiculed with my statements.

    Yet I see folks continue to post HC will follow steps taking by the FDA. No, HC will do as they are told by the common denominator who really runs the show, the WHO which the FDA is also cow towing to and, the MHRA.

    Now that I have pissed on your parade, it is a sad day indeed. Why do you think BT and BAT (in Europe) bought up several established markets? To grow tomatoes? Don't you think these folks had an inside scoop? Come on folks one needs to read between the lines.

    Does anyone still think that NJOY's preemptive application for an MA in Canada was a fluke?

    Plolitics is anything but the practice of democracy.... Oops! sorry you didn't want to hear that

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switcher View Post
    FWIW folks I have been saying this since 2011, only to be ridiculed with my statements.

    Yet I see folks continue to post HC will follow steps taking by the FDA. No, HC will do as they are told by the common denominator who really runs the show, the WHO which the FDA is also cow towing to and, the MHRA.

    Now that I have pissed on your parade, it is a sad day indeed. Why do you think BT and BAT (in Europe) bought up several established markets? To grow tomatoes? Don't you think these folks had an inside scoop? Come on folks one needs to read between the lines.

    Does anyone still think that NJOY's preemptive application for an MA in Canada was a fluke?

    Plolitics is anything but the practice of democracy.... Oops! sorry you didn't want to hear that
    Switcher I couldn't agree more with you...

    http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2011

    Some interesting read here...

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapowulf View Post
    February 15 2007 was the date the bill was introduced that would become the Tobacco Control Act.
    It also conveniently excludes pretty much the entire EC market from being grandfathered in. There oughta be enough history since then to object on the basis of track history without oodles of incidents. Haven't most (not all but most) harm incidents been the result of improper use and not a defect in the product itself?

  12. #48
    Advanced Mentor Igor_in_CH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvamoca View Post
    I think the whole point about the February. 2007 date is probably that there were no ecigarettes available at that time, therefore nothing could be grandfathered in. I could be wrong of course as I'm not sure when they were developed, and can't search on this iPad cause I can't see...except for the cigalike which according to someone now partnered with a tobacco company, says he created one in 1963. However, he can't prove it as there are no prototypes from that time period, just his schematics.
    Apologies because I may have this totally wrong...
    @cvamoca the current modern day e-cig was invented by Hon Lik, a Chinese Pharmacist, in 2003. Hon Lik sold his intellectual property rights for the e-cigarette to Imperial Tobacco for $75M in 2013. The date of February 15, 2007 is the date the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act was first introduced in the 110th US Congress for approval...
    Last edited by Igor_in_CH; 04-26-2014 at 08:12 AM.

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  14. #49
    Advanced Mentor Igor_in_CH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switcher View Post
    FWIW folks I have been saying this since 2011, only to be ridiculed with my statements.

    Yet I see folks continue to post HC will follow steps taking by the FDA. No, HC will do as they are told by the common denominator who really runs the show, the WHO which the FDA is also cow towing to and, the MHRA.

    Now that I have pissed on your parade, it is a sad day indeed. Why do you think BT and BAT (in Europe) bought up several established markets? To grow tomatoes? Don't you think these folks had an inside scoop? Come on folks one needs to read between the lines.

    Does anyone still think that NJOY's preemptive application for an MA in Canada was a fluke?

    Plolitics is anything but the practice of democracy.... Oops! sorry you didn't want to hear that
    @Switcher Why you no like the Who? , talkin' 'bout my generation

    In all seriousness though, you may well have a point about NJOY's application to HC for an MA or perhaps they were just prescient?, yeah right... Talking about "pre-emptive strikes" how about Imperial Tobacco buying up Hon Lik's intellectual property rights to the e-cigarette? Just wait until other BT's start to obtain approval from the FDA for and then try to market their own cig-a-likes in the US and watch the lawsuits fly then, wonder how many law firms Imperial has on retainer just waiting for this to happen
    Last edited by Igor_in_CH; 04-26-2014 at 08:12 AM.

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  16. #50
    Advanced Mentor Toronto_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switcher View Post
    FWIW folks I have been saying this since 2011, only to be ridiculed with my statements.

    Yet I see folks continue to post HC will follow steps taking by the FDA. No, HC will do as they are told by the common denominator who really runs the show, the WHO which the FDA is also cow towing to and, the MHRA.

    Now that I have pissed on your parade, it is a sad day indeed. Why do you think BT and BAT (in Europe) bought up several established markets? To grow tomatoes? Don't you think these folks had an inside scoop? Come on folks one needs to read between the lines.

    Does anyone still think that NJOY's preemptive application for an MA in Canada was a fluke?

    Plolitics is anything but the practice of democracy.... Oops! sorry you didn't want to hear that
    I have read your posts, Switch for the past 2 1/2 years & never had a doubt that BT would push to control and dominate the ecig market. Njoy's MA here in Canada, just made sense. The US market has become over saturated with companies, why not market to Canada. If I worked for NJOY, I would have done the same. I'm surprised BLU & the others didn't submit their MA's.

    Let's not jump in too far, too soon. The process has just begun. Let's remember where we all are. Congress has submitted a proposed rule to classify ecigs with tobacco products & want feedback before that rule is put into place. This is what everyone should be concerned with. We can see what the world will look like if it happens but there still many unknowns. The jargon never makes it clear.

    FDA HC & MHRA - are there to protect us & accept bribes from BT & BP - no doubt there. But in the end it's the governments who pass laws & enforce. Governments will favour the majority - they're over-paid, have a posh job, with the best benefits & retirement programs. They want to be re-elected - they'll favour the majority.

    But the one thing all these groups will face is something unlike they've ever seen before. Passion! The ecig is a product unlike anything else. It has changed the lives of so many & brought together a community that stretches worldwide. Take a good look at the size of the forums today, the facebook pages. What other product can you think of that has done that on the scale that the ecig has?

    The ignorance & corruption of these govenment agencies are calling for major smack down. Andy(OP) is so right. We need to unite. I foresee a not to distance revolution here & if it means I need to take time off & head down Parliament Hill , there will be 6 extra seats in my van for anyone who wants to join me.

    You & I didn't open an online store to make money. We opened an online store because the product changed our lives & we needed to share that with our friends & family & get the product to marketplace so others could have. That my friend is passion & we all have it. FDA's & HC's can restrict our movement but they'll never take away our passion.
    Last edited by Toronto_Mike; 04-26-2014 at 09:52 AM.
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