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  1. #11
    Mentor Tiki's Avatar
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    Nothing to do with race; everything to do with concrete evidence that folks are going onto the reserves to buy cigs, salmon, booze...

    Edit -----
    My understanding (someone may correct me on this) is/was that it's not illegal to buy and use the products on the reserves; it becomes illegal when they are taken off the reserves.
    Last edited by Tiki; 05-25-2015 at 11:15 AM.

  2. #12
    Guru Puff's Avatar
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    I could be totally wrong but afaik you can legally buy them but you're supposed to pay tax on what you've bought. So immediately after buying whatever zoom off to your nearest gov. office and remit the taxes owing.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @KanadianKat Same as tiki said. They aren't watching the natives, they're waiting for non natives to come from the reserve with cigs etc.

  3. #13
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Nothing to do with race; everything to do with concrete evidence that folks are going onto the reserves to buy cigs, salmon, booze...

    Edit -----
    My understanding (someone may correct me on this) is/was that it's not illegal to buy and use the products on the reserves; it becomes illegal when they are taken off the reserves.
    That's good info. Wonder why there is a dual law there?

    ...curious about this: is there a reason people would go to a reserve to get salmon? Cheaper? Better? (I love salmon).

    Quote Originally Posted by Puff View Post
    I could be totally wrong but afaik you can legally buy them but you're supposed to pay tax on what you've bought. So immediately after buying whatever zoom off to your nearest gov. office and remit the taxes owing.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @KanadianKat Same as tiki said. They aren't watching the natives, they're waiting for non natives to come from the reserve with cigs etc.
    I've never seen it and it strikes me as very strange. With all the issues in our country: drugs, sex slavery, pedophiles, illegal weapons, fraud, assault, .... I just don't get why reserve tobacco gets any attention at all. Surely the police can scare up more in funds from busting a meth lab than catching some single mother getting her cigs a few dollars cheaper.


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  4. #14
    Mentor Tiki's Avatar
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    Status First Nations can fish salmon year 'round on the coast.

    It's not just a single mom trying to save a few bucks. According to the ON gov't, in some areas it accounts for as much as 80% of tobacco consumption. Don't quote me; that's what one of the guys said during the debates. Anyway, it apparently means a sizeable financial loss to BT and the ON gov't.

    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    That's good info. Wonder why there is a dual law there?

    ...curious about this: is there a reason people would go to a reserve to get salmon? Cheaper? Better? (I love salmon).



    I've never seen it and it strikes me as very strange. With all the issues in our country: drugs, sex slavery, pedophiles, illegal weapons, fraud, assault, .... I just don't get why reserve tobacco gets any attention at all. Surely the police can scare up more in funds from busting a meth lab than catching some single mother getting her cigs a few dollars cheaper.

  5. #15
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Status First Nations can fish salmon year 'round on the coast.
    So they can fish but not sell. ?
    I suppose that makes sense, esp if the fishing is unrestricted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    It's not just a single mom trying to save a few bucks. According to the ON gov't, in some areas it accounts for as much as 80% of tobacco consumption. Don't quote me; that's what one of the guys said during the debates. Anyway, it apparently means a sizeable financial loss to BT and the ON gov't.
    That's always a problem with tobacco tax. It's meant to serve a dual purpose: Revenue and prevention. A tight line to walk and one the government has, quite obviously, failed utterly to manage.

    Alberta is considering a carbon emmissions tax right now. I hate to think how it would go if the government became so dependent on the revenue that they lost sight of the prevention aspect. It's too easy to inadvertently push for greater abuse of something restricted, when government revenues become dependent on that thing.

    I still, though, believe it's wrong to park police outside reserves. Whether they are looking to bust the buyers or sellers - it still supports the message that "first nations are criminals".
    Last edited by KanadianKat; 05-27-2015 at 12:03 PM.


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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    According to the ON gov't, in some areas it accounts for as much as 80% of tobacco consumption. Don't quote me; that's what one of the guys said during the debates. Anyway, it apparently means a sizeable financial loss to BT and the ON gov't.
    80% is a bit of an exaggeration, but in areas like Peterborough where there are 3 reserves seeing a pack of Native smokes was like seeing a pack of Player's Light say 15 years ago.

    Thing that holds them back from being higher, is for the most part their products are awful, and for any brand that isn't quality control and or consistency is so low it sooner or later becomes awful too. But personally I used to buy them by the ziplock bag carton LOL. $15-20 bucks for 200.

    I'm convinced what is happening is this. The Natives in a grey market are allowed to sell their smokes, then if they ask the government for more money the government can threaten to cut off their smoke revenue through enforcement. They have them on a leash. As an added bonus the government can say they reduced smoking because native smokes are not recorded in those statistics. As for liability, the natives have their neck on the line. Remember those huge lawsuits against tobacco by government for health care costs... Yet another measure of control.

    I'd suspect the amount of police enforcement is directly proportional to how well that certain reserve is behaving towards the government.

  7. #17
    Coach Cranky Dragon Vapes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    Since when are people "guaranteed" to commit crimes based on what ethnic group they belong to?
    That kind of behavior has been going on for years by the cops though more so with Calgary cops. (i have been told by many other people) i am 3/4's Indian with long hair, soon as i walk into some place like Walmart or the bay, Fancy Diamond ring store (even a few B&M's) i have security tailing me, or get hauled to the side of the road by cops walking the beat. When i would have Ejuice mailed to me, or waited for a parcel my wife in the states would send to me, the mail woman would call the cops saying i ordered liquid cocaine (news to me :|) and each time i ask them why in the hell they singled me out i am told the same thing all the time "you look like you would commit a crime". I made mention of this publicly before and called a racist, so it is good to see others are now questioning the same things.....
    Last edited by Cranky Dragon Vapes; 05-30-2015 at 05:10 PM.

  8. #18
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky Dragon View Post
    That kind of behavior has been going on for years by the cops though more so with Calgary cops. (i have been told by many other people) i am 3/4's Indian with long hair, soon as i walk into some place like Walmart or the bay, Fancy Diamond ring store (even a few B&M's) i have security tailing me, or get hauled to the side of the road by cops walking the beat. When i would have Ejuice mailed to me, or waited for a parcel my wife in the states would send to me, the mail woman would call the cops saying i ordered liquid cocaine (news to me :|) and each time i ask them why in the hell they singled me out i am told the same thing all the time "you look like you would commit a crime". I made mention of this publicly before and called a racist, so it is good to see others are now questioning the same things.....
    I am sorry to hear that - and I've seen it too - and it's really ugly. Canadians can be so hypocritical when dissing other nations for racism, while practicing it here - and so openly, without apology.


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  9. #19
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Nothing to do with race; everything to do with concrete evidence that folks are going onto the reserves to buy cigs, salmon, booze...
    I don't see that as a worthy excuse.

    Don't people also go to reserve land to visit family? Come home from work?

    There are a few very high crime areas in Calgary (like Forest Lawn). Don't see the police parked outside the train station there waiting for the "criminals" coming and going.

    ...and lets get completely honest here: cigarettes, salmon and alcohol are hardly the kind of crimes that should bring that level of attention. Not when the nearby cities are rife with rape, physical assault, meth labs, child porn, armed robbery, drive by shootings, .....

    There is no excuse.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

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  10. #20
    Coach Cranky Dragon Vapes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    I am sorry to hear that - and I've seen it too - and it's really ugly. Canadians can be so hypocritical when dissing other nations for racism, while practicing it here - and so openly, without apology.
    Nothing to be sorry for Kat. We are all creatures of some habit. Besides when i come across the zipper head ones, then i have a rather valid excuse to let my attitude come out. Besides with Stampede coming up, now is a good time to get the word of PV's out there, and honestly i would rather do that then me the normal cranky pithy dragon (though that is one of my "endearing qualities" too)

 

 
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