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  1. #11
    Advanced Mentor amoca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puff View Post
    I want to speak but I'm filled with panic when I try to speak in front of people. Last time I tried I was frozen in silence and swore that was my last attempt. I'm seriously considering it though because of how important it is. I also have a issue processing information so I try to read the bill and it's just words whose meaning slips away as I try to read it *sigh* I'm going to try to get my husband to read it and explain it to me. Maybe I can beg him to go as my representative if he could time off to go. He's amazing at speaking to groups. I don't even know if such a thing is allowed. I'm not sure what I can do but I feel I have to try. If I leave it to other people, if we all did that, there wouldn't be anyone doing it. :| ugh..*tries to read it again*
    My dear Puff-
    It's ok- you can address them in several ways-- but not if doing so causes you panic. Your husband would be fine, and can certainly talk about what it has done for you. He lives with a success story.

    I'm a scaredy cat even though I used to do a fair bit of public speaking. Being somewhat blind helps...I just unfocus my eye and talk. It was more nerve wracking waiting for them to call my name than it was to talk. The best advice I can give is find someone who's looking at you and hold their attention. The old imagine them naked routine
    However and whatever you do, is 100% better than doing nothing!
    Thank you- for all of you in Ontario and BC are in a hell of a fight, one that we had little time to prepare for here in NS, though we did our best. Together we are stronger than we are when separate.
    Big hugs to you.
    “Don’t only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven


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  3. #12
    Guru Puff's Avatar
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    My husband was in a conference in the states for a few days for work and just got home tonight so I had to wait a bit before I "OMG PLS HELP" 'd him He's willing to speak on my behalf. He's never smoked and doesn't vape but like amoka said, he's seen the profound difference in myself and others and is furious with the way things are going. I'll talk to him about it and show him the bill etc. and we'll figure it out. He's very comfortable and unintimited by public speaking and has a very professional resonable manner ( unlike me..with my terrified deer in the head lights response ) He wouldn't be able to travel to Toronto because of work sheduale but I can ask what Kat mentioned about being informed if the commitee is traveling to our area. At least if we say we'd like to speak then it's one more added to the list. Hopefully I can talk to him in a coherent enough way, with enough info to give him what he needs to know to do it :|

    Please, any one that can speak, do it, this is wrong on so many levels, the base one being that our goverment makes desicions on bills that they are cluleless about and vaping isn't the only one.WTF is that? How is that permissible? Any shred of confidence I had in the goverment is gone.

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  5. #13
    Mentor Midnight Vaper's Avatar
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    If you can't make it to Toronto, another option would be to submit something in writing. Follow the guidelines on written submissions found at Kats original link.

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  7. #14
    Advanced Mentor amoca's Avatar
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    I have an idle thought and I'm not sure whether it can be used or if it's silly, but the thought has occurred to me that- if promotion of ecigs are prohibited at shops- does that mean that I, a customer- can't talk to the little old lady in line with questions, and maybe suggest what she gets? Not being an employee of a shop should mean that I'm just being helpful, right? This is looking way ahead and at the worst case scenario, but I'm sort of the local "ecig mechanic"- if you can't get your silly ego to fire because the pin's pushed in, or your coils are burnt out or you don't know what's the best next step--people call or ask me, and if they are close, I fix them or tell them what they need to do/get. Not mods mind you, total dummy there, but for general stuff I'm pretty handy.

    I would consider it a public service to stay in a vape shop and help folks who don't know what to do, if the employees aren't allowed to display or promote. It may come down to that, and if so, hopefully this is a potential work around. We're not going to roll over and die, and this genie is not going to get stuffed back in a bottle if I can help it!

    Just a thought that has occurred to me several times in the past few months.
    “Don’t only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven


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  9. #15
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    @amoca - lol.... I love the way you think!

    Can you just imagine if vapers volunteered to stand in shops every day to talk to customers because our lawmakers are forbidding store owners?

    There was a Big Bang Theory episode where Sheldon does that in an electronics store. It was hilarious.

    I think though these laws are all unconstitutional. It would take a constitutional lawyer to dissect and verify that. It IS one of the reasons you can take the provincial government to court over a law they passed (according to a lawyer I had a chat with on this). Only after they've passed it though.

    In Nova Scotia it could be a problem to take to court - for logistical reasons: There are very few vape shops and very few vapers and almost no money accumulated in the industry.

    Ontario or Quebec would be the best provinces to tackle this - there is sheer volume of stores, vape bars and vapers. It does look as if Ontario may be the place where a constitutional challenge takes place. We will need to wait and see if the law is actually passed though and if, in it's final form, it violates citizens rights. That could be awhile yet. Best, of course, fight it first. Save a couple million dollars. Save some or at least most of the stores.

    The financial strain of a constitutional challenge while the proposed restrictive laws are in place, would likely bankrupt a few shops. So it's not ideal - but potentially doable. Also with organizations like ECTA, CVA and THRA - all able to collect and funnel funds into a lawsuit - it takes the strain off the shops a bit.

    If successfully challenged in one province - that will make challenging in other provinces quite easy (potentially even unnecessary) - even in Nova Scotia. But it requires succeeding with the first challenge. .....it's not over in NS yet..... (but it may take awhile to bring the fight back there).
    Last edited by KanadianKat; 04-05-2015 at 09:35 AM.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

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  11. #16
    Mentor Midnight Vaper's Avatar
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    Best tactic would be to pick a suitable challenger and crowd fund the hell out of them.

  12. #17
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Vaper View Post
    Best tactic would be to pick a suitable challenger and crowd fund the hell out of them.
    In Ontario, any resident or business in the province can challenge the law - or many altogether. In some circumstances groups can also participate. So it doesn't have to be one challenger. It will need crowd funding though. Constitutional lawyers and Federal Court time comes with a significant price tag.

    ---

    And onto the next section of the act - for discussion:

    4) (1) No person shall employ or authorize anyone to promote electronic cigarettes or the sale of electronic cigarettes at any place of entertainment that the person owns, operates or occupies.
    Definition
    (2) In this section,
    “place of entertainment” means a place to which the public is ordinarily invited or permitted access, either expressly or by implication, whether or not a fee is charged for entry, and which is primarily devoted to eating, drinking or any form of amusement.


    ----

    So my question on this is simply "WHY". Is there some issue with electronic cigarettes and amusement or entertainment, food or drink service? It's a question that should be asked directly (and record the answer).

    This one, I think, gives a good opportunity to straight up ask the Committee if it's even constitutional? (one of the areas of constitutional challenge is if the law is using the least restrictive avenue to accomplish something.... and if some part of the law doesn't accomplish anything and doesn't have any reason behind it... well??).

    I would also add (if I was in Ontario and could speak with this committee):
    VapeCan - an event that is roughly equivalent to a type of "comic con" - happens in Toronto every year. This provision would make it illegal. It would also make it illegal to sell Personal Electronic Vaporizers (of any kind) in a market.

    So the pressing question is WHY? Is there a reason for this restriction? (and press the committee for an answer - because if there isn't one - this will be constitutional challenge #1).


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

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  14. #18
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    The Committee has set 2 dates for Public Hearings in Toronto.

    if you want to register to be heard - here is the info:

    Bill 45, Making Healthier Choices Act, 2015

    Projet de loi 45, Loi de 2015 pour des choix plus sains

    The Standing Committee on General Government will meet to consider Bill 45, An Act to enhance public health by enacting the Healthy Menu Choices Act, 2014 and the Electronic Cigarettes Act, 2014 and by amending the Smoke-Free Ontario Act.

    The Committee intends to hold public hearings in Toronto on Monday, April 20 and Wednesday, April 22, 2015.

    Interested people who wish to be considered to make an oral presentation on Bill 45 should contact the Clerk of the Committee by 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday, April 15, 2015.

    Those who do not wish to make an oral presentation but wish to comment on the Bill may send written submissions to the Clerk of the Committee at the address below by 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, April 22, 2015.

    An electronic version of the Bill is available on the Legislative Assembly website at: Welcome to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

    Grant Crack, MPP Sylwia Przezdziecki
    Chair/Président Clerk/Greffière

    Room 1405, Whitney Block/Bureau 1405, édifice Whitney
    Queen’s Park, Toronto ON M7A 1A2

    Telephone/Téléphone: 416-325-3515
    Facsimile/Télécopieur: 416-325-3505
    TTY/ATS: 416-325-3538
    E-mail/Courriel: sprzezdziecki@ola.org

    Collect calls will be accepted./Nous acceptons les appels à frais virés.

    Ces renseignements sont disponibles en français sur demande.

    request.

    Bill 45


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

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  16. #19
    New Member
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    Jumping in

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  18. #20
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Okay - on to the next point in the bill.

    I'm not going to state my thoughts on this right away - but give everyone opportunity to punch out your own ideas on how to address this:

    Sale in prohibited places
    5. (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall sell or offer to sell electronic cigarettes in the following places:
    1. A hospital as defined in the Public Hospitals Act.
    2. A private hospital as defined in the Private Hospitals Act.
    3. A psychiatric facility as defined in the Mental Health Act.
    4. A long-term care home within the meaning of the Long-Term Care Homes Act, 2007.
    5. A pharmacy as defined in the Drug and Pharmacies Regulation Act.
    6. An establishment where goods or services are sold or offered for sale to the public, if,
    i. a pharmacy as defined in the Drug and Pharmacies Regulation Act is located within the establishment, or
    ii. customers of such a pharmacy can pass into the establishment directly or by the use of a corridor or area used exclusively to connect the pharmacy with the establishment.
    7. A prescribed place or a place that belongs to a prescribed class.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

 

 
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