Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Click the "Create Account" button now to join.

Welcome to the Wackedout - Ecig Canada Forum Electronic Cigarette.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24
  1. #1
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Didsbury, Alberta
    Posts
    2,001
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Bill 45 - Next Steps

    Bill 45 passed 2nd reading this morning:

    52 for, 41 against (14 assumed absent, as there are 107 members of the House).

    The Bill has now been referred to the Standing Committee on General Government.

    This is the portion of the bill where the public, organizations, stakeholders and other interested parties can speak to the issues within the bill. The committee does have the power to amend any clause in the bill, or the bill itself, based on feedback and at their discretion. I believe (but need to confirm this) they also have the power to vote the bill down.

    This is a critical stage.

    If you would like to get involved, please contact the committee at the link below and register to be heard. The committee, btw, is able to travel to hear different POV's - so if you are not in Toronto or area, mention that you would be interested in being informed if the committee will travel to your area.

    Participation in Committees - Legislative Assembly of Ontario


    And (here comes the teacher in me... ) Time for some homework!

    1. This is a basic look at the legislative process and bills in Ontario: http://www.ontla.on.ca/lao/en/media/...ome-law-en.pdf
    Read pages 3 - 14 This is a very easy simple read (lots of visual aids) that can help you understand better how the Committee process works and what to expect overall.

    2. Read Bill 45 - Ecig Section 3 (yes, the whole friggin thing) and make sure you understand it. The committee will examine this bill clause by clause - so knowing what it says will be important.
    You can find it here: Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Bills & Lawmaking | Past & Present | 41:1 Bill 45, Making Healthier Choices Act, 2015


    ...and have a wonderful weekend everyone.
    Last edited by KanadianKat; 04-02-2015 at 12:51 PM.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

  2. Thanks Ryedan, NevergoIngbaCk, Puff, Stangela, Midnight Vaper thanked for this post
  3. #2
    Mentor Midnight Vaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Mississauga, Ontario
    Posts
    308
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I registered my interest to be heard a couple of months ago. You needed be afraid of the process, it is quick and painless. Even if you think you may not want to attend, at very least register. That way you can participate if you want to. Also the more people they hear from the more interested the public appears to be in the issue.

  4. Thanks Puff, KanadianKat thanked for this post
    Likes Puff, amoca, KanadianKat liked this post
  5. #3
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Didsbury, Alberta
    Posts
    2,001
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Vaper View Post
    I registered my interest to be heard a couple of months ago. You needed be afraid of the process, it is quick and painless. Even if you think you may not want to attend, at very least register. That way you can participate if you want to. Also the more people they hear from the more interested the public appears to be in the issue.
    Agreed. The process of Committee is not a painful one.

    In the HOUSE (where readings take place) - there are 107 MPP's all able to debate and vote on a bill. This means basically you need a large sector of the public who are able to each reach their MPP and convince him/her to speak on their behalf and vote a certain way. It's a tough process. Not impossible, but when a bill is favored by the government, very difficult. Yet Vapers in Ontario managed to reach many MPP's in a very positive way.

    In COMMITTEE - everyone, all together, are addressing a small handful of MPP's who are each hearing the same thing and making decisions together.

    So every little bit of input is more concentrated and has a stronger impact.


    There is opportunity to speak in person or to make a written submission. The written word can be compelling. It permits MPP's to review information, check it, re-read it, etc. An in-person presentation is visually compelling and allows the MPP's to ask questions, make additional comments - is more fluid and personal. So both can be an excellent step in the process.

    But it's painless indeed. Unless you sit silently by and say nothing.
    Last edited by KanadianKat; 04-02-2015 at 01:28 PM.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

  6. Thanks Puff, bobbilly thanked for this post
    Likes Puff, amoca liked this post
  7. #4
    Guru Puff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    London,Ontario
    Posts
    1,746
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I want to speak but I'm filled with panic when I try to speak in front of people. Last time I tried I was frozen in silence and swore that was my last attempt. I'm seriously considering it though because of how important it is. I also have a issue processing information so I try to read the bill and it's just words whose meaning slips away as I try to read it *sigh* I'm going to try to get my husband to read it and explain it to me. Maybe I can beg him to go as my representative if he could time off to go. He's amazing at speaking to groups. I don't even know if such a thing is allowed. I'm not sure what I can do but I feel I have to try. If I leave it to other people, if we all did that, there wouldn't be anyone doing it. :| ugh..*tries to read it again*

  8. Likes amoca, cymric, KanadianKat liked this post
  9. #5
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Didsbury, Alberta
    Posts
    2,001
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Puff View Post
    I want to speak but I'm filled with panic when I try to speak in front of people. Last time I tried I was frozen in silence and swore that was my last attempt. I'm seriously considering it though because of how important it is. I also have a issue processing information so I try to read the bill and it's just words whose meaning slips away as I try to read it *sigh* I'm going to try to get my husband to read it and explain it to me. Maybe I can beg him to go as my representative if he could time off to go. He's amazing at speaking to groups. I don't even know if such a thing is allowed. I'm not sure what I can do but I feel I have to try. If I leave it to other people, if we all did that, there wouldn't be anyone doing it. :| ugh..*tries to read it again*
    Of course your husband can speak to the bill. If he's a citizen of Ontario - that is all that's required. Concerned citizens don't have to be vapers. Just concerned.

    Maybe over the next few days we can all participate in breaking down the ecig portion of the bill part by part and explaining it. There are enough people here and we can all learn from each other.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

  10. Likes amoca liked this post
  11. #6
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Didsbury, Alberta
    Posts
    2,001
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'll start here. Let's break down the Bill.

    Clause 1 contains DEFINITIONS. We'll need to refer to these as we go.

    Clause 2 deals entirely with not selling to minors and contains all the standard legal clauses for that. I don't think there are objections to that - but if someone has one, discuss.

    Clause 3 deals with Display and Promotion and is a great place to begin (and to start educating the Committee)

    3. (1) No person shall, in any place where electronic cigarettes are sold or offered for sale, display or permit the display of electronic cigarettes in any manner that would permit a consumer to view or handle an electronic cigarette before purchasing it.
    Promotion
    (2) No person shall promote electronic cigarettes,
    (a) in any place where electronic cigarettes or tobacco products are sold or offered for sale; or
    (b) in any manner, if the promotion is visible from outside a place in which electronic cigarettes or tobacco products are sold or offered for sale.
    Exceptions
    (3) Despite subsection (2), if the regulations so provide, a person may post signs providing information about electronic cigarettes and their price, but only if the signs meet the prescribed conditions.
    4) Despite subsection (2), if the regulations so provide, a person may make available a document providing information about electronic cigarettes and their price, but only if the document meets the prescribed conditions.



    -----

    Begin Discussion:

    (my POV)

    I would right away begin using the term "Electronic Vaporizers - commercially known as electronic cigarettes" (and then use the term Electronic Vaporizers mostly, with occasional references to "ecig" or similar words).

    Electronic Vaporizers are not sold by "brands" as some have mistakenly suggested. They are sold by "model". There are thousands of models in the market. These change frequently, whenever there is a new development in electronics technology. Just like smart phones.

    Some models have programs inside that you plug into a computer to update.
    Some models have a fixed operating program that you do nothing with, it just works the same way every time.
    Some models have programs where you select different types of power options, and some of these count how many times it's used and some even have a memory program where the users settings and counts reload every time it's turned on. Some don't.
    Some have LED screens that read out information and settings. Some have dials you set.
    Some are made very sturdy and can withstand high pressure and rough use. Some are delicate (in looks and function) and need to be cared for differently.

    Some are meant to only last a few months and then you buy a new one, the latest model.
    Some are more permanent and you really only buy a new one when you want a newer model with the latest features.

    Just like smart phones. And the price ranges reflect what type of model you are buying and what type of features you need.

    There are many people who are fine shopping online, even overseas - who know what model they want. They can go to a website and read about the features and look for the best price for that model. Ordering it from Canada or the US or even Europe, depending on the prices.

    Local stores in Ontario though let people go in and learn what's available. To see and touch and receive guidance on what features are currently available, what's new and what's obsolete and how everything works together.

    Because these are personal electronics, and we all have different personal needs, and this is a brand new product for most people, YES IT IS ESSENTIAL to beable to feel and touch and taste and learn what will work for each person and why.

    Is there any other personal electronic device where governments are restricting what information can be communicated? Or forbidding store staff from communicating with customers - except by handing them government approved information sheets to read? What about people who aren't technically minded? Who wouldn't understand what they're reading? Or people who are very technical and want to know all the details? How does something like this even work?

    If that were the case, there would be no point to having a physical store where you can go in and see and touch and learn and get help.


    ----

    Them be my thoughts.... anyone else have ideas to add to this? Please do. Let's get a conversation going on this one. It's one of the primarys.
    Last edited by KanadianKat; 04-03-2015 at 09:38 AM.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

  12. Thanks Ryedan, Puff thanked for this post
    Likes Ryedan, amoca, Puff, Midnight Vaper liked this post
  13. #7
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nicely said, I would ammend to that some information/evidence to help bolster the claims and give some of the "evidence" "they" constantly claim is lacking.

    Study - 41 Percent of New Vapers Quit Smoking Within a Year

    This is the "evidence" they say isn't available. "There is no evidence that e-cigs help smokers quit".

    This shows the important difference between vape shops and gas stations/corner stores the marketplace for cigarettes.
    We can also show how vape shops actually don't sell to minors or at least have policies in place to not sell to minors.

    We can also demonstrate how this law does the opposite of what they are supposedly "trying to do", by putting in these restrictions there will be less safeguards against preventing children from smoking and will turn the industry over to the tobacco companies who have no interest in stopping people from smoking.



    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    I'll start here. Let's break down the Bill.

    Clause 1 contains DEFINITIONS. We'll need to refer to these as we go.

    Clause 2 deals entirely with not selling to minors and contains all the standard legal clauses for that. I don't think there are objections to that - but if someone has one, discuss.

    Clause 3 deals with Display and Promotion and is a great place to begin (and to start educating the Committee)

    3. (1) No person shall, in any place where electronic cigarettes are sold or offered for sale, display or permit the display of electronic cigarettes in any manner that would permit a consumer to view or handle an electronic cigarette before purchasing it.
    Promotion
    (2) No person shall promote electronic cigarettes,
    (a) in any place where electronic cigarettes or tobacco products are sold or offered for sale; or
    (b) in any manner, if the promotion is visible from outside a place in which electronic cigarettes or tobacco products are sold or offered for sale.
    Exceptions
    (3) Despite subsection (2), if the regulations so provide, a person may post signs providing information about electronic cigarettes and their price, but only if the signs meet the prescribed conditions.
    4) Despite subsection (2), if the regulations so provide, a person may make available a document providing information about electronic cigarettes and their price, but only if the document meets the prescribed conditions.



    -----

    Begin Discussion:

    (my POV)

    I would right away begin using the term "Electronic Vaporizers - commercially known as electronic cigarettes" (and then use the term Electronic Vaporizers mostly, with occasional references to "ecig" or similar words).

    Electronic Vaporizers are not sold by "brands" as some have mistakenly suggested. They are sold by "model". There are thousands of models in the market. These change frequently, whenever there is a new development in electronics technology. Just like smart phones.

    Some models have programs inside that you plug into a computer to update.
    Some models have a fixed operating program that you do nothing with, it just works the same way every time.
    Some models have programs where you select different types of power options, and some of these count how many times it's used and some even have a memory program where the users settings and counts reload every time it's turned on. Some don't.
    Some have LED screens that read out information and settings. Some have dials you set.
    Some are made very sturdy and can withstand high pressure and rough use. Some are delicate (in looks and function) and need to be cared for differently.

    Some are meant to only last a few months and then you buy a new one, the latest model.
    Some are more permanent and you really only buy a new one when you want a newer model with the latest features.

    Just like smart phones. And the price ranges reflect what type of model you are buying and what type of features you need.

    There are many people who are fine shopping online, even overseas - who know what model they want. They can go to a website and read about the features and look for the best price for that model. Ordering it from Canada or the US or even Europe, depending on the prices.

    Local stores in Ontario though let people go in and learn what's available. To see and touch and receive guidance on what features are currently available, what's new and what's obsolete and how everything works together.

    Because these are personal electronics, and we all have different personal needs, and this is a brand new product for most people, YES IT IS ESSENTIAL to beable to feel and touch and taste and learn what will work for each person and why.

    Is there any other personal electronic device where governments are restricting what information can be communicated? Or not allowing store staff to really help a customer find what is best for them?

    If that were the case, there would be no point to having a physical store where you can go in and see and touch and learn and get help.


    ----

    Them be my thoughts.... anyone else have ideas to add to this? Please do. Let's get a conversation going on this one. It's one of the primarys.

  14. #8
    Mentor Midnight Vaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Mississauga, Ontario
    Posts
    308
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    I would right away begin using the term "Electronic Vaporizers - commercially known as electronic cigarettes" (and then use the term Electronic Vaporizers mostly, with occasional references to "ecig" or similar words).
    I agree. In all my correspondence I have used the term Personal Vapourizer. I think it is important to distance ourselves from smokers and cigarettes. There is a conception out there that most vapers are just using 'ecigs' as a way to get around smoking bans. We need to be clear that we have no interest in smoking and are using these DEVICES as a means to eliminate our addictions to tobacco cigarettes.


    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    There are many people who are fine shopping online, even overseas - who know what model they want. They can go to a website and read about the features and look for the best price for that model. Ordering it from Canada or the US or even Europe, depending on the prices.
    Our representatives need to understand that harsh restrictions are not going to mean we stop vaping. During some of the debates members brought up the concern that strict regulations could lead to a grey market. Let them know that vapers will be ordering their supplies online if it becomes too inconvenient to purchase from local shops. If given the choice between having people order from shops outside of the province or country, or people shopping locally, I think they would rather have people shop locally where it can at least benefit Ontario's economy.


    Quote Originally Posted by KanadianKat View Post
    Local stores in Ontario though let people go in and learn what's available. To see and touch and receive guidance on what features are currently available, what's new and what's obsolete and how everything works together.
    I also think it is important to let the committee know that there are a lot of products out there and some have a steeper learning curve than others. New vapers need to be educated before they purchase and need to be given proper care and usage instructions. There are a lot of products out there and they are not all equal. New vapers need to be guided towards the type of products that will be more suited for their situations and knowledge level.

    Most of all though, I think it is important that we make very clear that personal vapourizers need to be AT LEAST as convenient to purchase as tobacco products, if not more convenient. It does not make sense if someone is able to walk to the corner and easily buy a pack of cigarettes but they have to jump through hoops to purchase a product that is far less damaging to them. The goal should be to have the lesser of two evils to be the one that is more acceptable to purchase and use, and there should NOT BE a stigma attached to vaping. If given a choice between rather having someone smoke or vape the choice should ALWAYS be to have them vape.

    Lastly, there also is a conception out there (and I have heard this from multiple members during the debates) that the cigarette companies are using ecigs to try and hook a new generation of smokers. It is VITAL that we make them understand that it is not the tobacco companies who are pushing the vapourizer market. They were late to the game and they offer an inferior product and no support or service. The vaping industry was created to get away from Big Tobacco's rule. Make it clear that it is small, local shops who have the most impact on the market. These shops are not trying to hook a new generation of smokers. These shops are helping to facilitate a shift AWAY from smoking.

  15. #9
    Coach
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    toronto
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I applied for the committee a while ago. I hope I get on there because I have a suggestion that I think would make everyone happy.

    Apparently restaurants, schools, and hotels have been begging for legislation because they're stuck arguing with inconsiderate jerk vapours that say they can vape indoors.

    My suggestion is that they amend the bill to give facilities the power to ban vaping within their facilities. The bill should state that the facility may ban vaping on their premise by clearly marking that there is no vaping allowed. As long as it is clearly indicated at the entrance anyone who violates the ban may be subject to the fines that were already proposed.

    This gives facilities the power to ban vaping on their property if they CHOOSE TO and also gives vape shops and other facilities who want to allow vaping the freedom to vape indoors as well!

    I think this is the happy medium that we could all agree upon.

    If I can't get on the committee I'd beg somebody to suggest this on my behalf.

    FYI I am a licensed paralegal and appear before several courts on a regular basis. I'm just tying my thoughts here and will polish up a speech when I have more time to do so.

  16. #10
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Didsbury, Alberta
    Posts
    2,001
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    @moonlight

    I think you might have this confused with a different Committee.

    This one is a Standing Committee of the Ontario Legislature. You need to be an elected MPP.

    ---

    Great suggestions so far from all.

    Re: the bill - The 4th point in this clause is one that I think could give some good food for thought to the Committee - because it demonstrates that whomever wrote the bill had no understanding of the product. It's also very antagonistic for fair competition.

    If the government is in charge of deciding what information can be communicated about an electronic in Ontario - wouldn't this force Ontario consumers to go elsewhere to shop - where such restrictions are not in place?

    And Who would decide? Would there be a separate Committee available each time a new technological development comes to market to choose what can be communicated? How would this be clarified with each business? Would there be a bulletin or other method of letting vendors know - or would there be a body deciding when new tech developments could be released?

    (in other words.... sometimes the simplest way to the truth is to question the lie in great detail).
    Last edited by KanadianKat; 04-03-2015 at 05:31 PM.


    They tried to bury us. Guess they didn't know we were seeds.

    www.electrovapors.com

 

 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Our Partners

Bill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next StepsBill 45 - Next Steps

Electronic Cigarette Directory
Chilliwack & Agassiz Dentist
Buy CBD Canada Online