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  1. #1
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    BC Vaping Association call for concessions

    Based on the release of Regulator Watch's second video Battle For Vaping Rights, i'd like to hear what others think about the position of British Columbia's Political Consultant/Vape Lobbyist - Michael Geoghegan - specifically on one of two concessions they are looking for. That concession is "limit the sale of vaping products to 19+ stores". I find this argument very appealing for several reasons:
    1. Convenience store/gas station products are generally ineffective in getting someone off cigarettes.
    2. Agreement from the industry to make product less available may alleviate concerns of easy accessibility.
    3. The convenience store/gas station products are the ones made by Big Tobacco. The dedicated vaping industry does not support, or need big tobacco. Delegation to 19 and over stores should effectively take their products off the market, as i don't believe any vape shop carries them now, nor would they in future. Most of the products we use are made in China, as are most consumer electronics, and are not contributing to tobacco profits.

    Of course the Convenience Store Merchants Association will not be pleased, but isn't their product "junk"? And when's the last time a convenience store stood up for vaping education/rights? As a province yet to face legislation, i am wondering what others think about this, and if it could be a good model for those yet to fight.

  2. #2
    Administrator Nicklfire's Avatar
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    Yes very interesting what is happening here in BC.

    You have basically one organization in the front lines and that's the BCVA. The BCVA from my understanding is the one that helped with bringing the lobbiest on board. It's all the members in the BCVA which are helping the lobbiests etc. They are trying to fight from the inside out.

    Then around the province you have had all the store in the last 3 weeks printing flyers asking people to submit emails to the bill14consultation and CC their local MLA to bring attention. From what i have hard the government was pretty shocked to see the flood of responses. My estimate there must have been 300+ emails sent... and i have no idea on that number i'm just assuming at LEAST.

    It's been great to see all the stores fighting for this... but in the end i'm really unsure what's going to happen. The ecta says they are in contact with the government so hopefully that is helping at the same time.

    The biggest things with the bill is that if it passes the way it is.. there will be no vaping in stores... that's a bad thing. I believe NS has that current problem now.

    regarding your statement 1) convenience stores are ineffective in getting people off cigarettes I'd say I'd typically disagree with. Many people have purchased those cigalike cheap knock offs... maybe they realized something out there is better and researched into vaping more and got a decent setup. Really I'd think they are just inexperienced with vaping in general to give any good advice. Cigarettes there is no setup.. nothing to teach. Vaping you gotta be in the know... to sell something to someone.

    The big push right now is putting a better age restriction on stores, taking vape stores OUT of the amendments for vaping indoors... and the convenience store push as well

    be interesting what happens, fingers crossed, Nov 20 was the cutoff for public feedback
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  3. #3
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    Shawn i raised this on social media (ECTA's page and THRA's page) and the general response was - not a good idea to restrict to 19 and over stores. My personal experience with some lifetime smokers i know of is the convenience store products don't work. I know of several people who halfheartedly tried with limited info and no one guiding them and just gave up. I can tell from talking to these people their problems are entirely curable - things like burnt taste, juice not satisfying, ecig making them cough and so on - all fixable and any vape shop would know. If they HAD to go to a vape shop they would have had a much better chance of success. But they all went back to smoking.

  4. #4
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    The focus I went for in my own submission was very specific, highlighing regulations that cross the line, and may, potentially, be illegal.

    Vaping in vape shops is, along with arguments on the value of ecigs, is going to be viewed as "ideological" in nature. There is no constitutional right for people to expect to do something in public, nor to choose a particular behavior.

    BUT there is an expectation that when a product is a consumable that is manufactured (not agricultural), consumers have a right to know the ingredients of the consumable prior to purchasing it. For many reasons, including allergies, sensitivities and free choice over what to consume or not consume.

    There is also an expectation that when purchasing any device meant to do something - that consumers have the right to know what features that device has, and be free to ask salespersons to explain what various features mean and how they differ one from the other.

    Ecigs are 2 products: a manufactured consumable (indirect consumption) and an electronic or mechanical device.

    Bill 14 regulations put both these into the same category as an agricultural product (tobacco). Does this over-ride existing laws and rights? Of course it does. Put these things behind a black curtain, with sales persons unable to show/discuss the features, and consumers unable to view and compare ingredients of consumables - NOW we have something very real to complain about.

    And truthfully, if both products were treated the same as other similar products (age restricted along the same lines as alcoholic beverages), it would then be legal to permit taste testing in-store (like wine tasting, for example), and solve the problem with approaching "instore vaping" from the current ideological POV.


    ...does this make sense to anyone?


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  5. #5
    Coach Maja's Avatar
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    But they do sometimes have free tastings in the lcbo


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    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maja View Post
    But they do sometimes have free tastings in the lcbo


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ...and that would be a good point to bring up - if the regulations respect existing laws on consumables and electronics. It would open the door in the future to ask for equal treatment with other like products.


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  8. #7
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    [QUOTE=KanadianKat;145982]...and that would be a good point to bring up - if the regulations respect existing laws on consumables and electronics. It would open the door in the future to ask for equal treatment with other like products. [QUOTE=KanadianKat;145982]

    Still playing devil's advocate here. I wondered if this was the BC Vaping Association's way of recognizing that whether we agree or not, at this time equality is NOT going to happen, so we make a concession to be put in a box. Then at least within that box they can operate effectively. At a later time the law can be changed when warranted by more acceptance. Vaping's not going to die because of it - the movement is growing world wide. Will less people convert to vaping because it's not in a gas station? Debatable. I'm vaping almost 2 years - never purchased the convenience store variety and never set foot in a vape shop until about 8 months ago.

  9. #8
    VIP Member KanadianKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BX fan View Post
    Still playing devil's advocate here.
    Quote Originally Posted by BX fan View Post
    I wondered if this was the BC Vaping Association's way of recognizing that whether we agree or not, at this time equality is NOT going to happen, so we make a concession to be put in a box. Then at least within that box they can operate effectively. At a later time the law can be changed when warranted by more acceptance. Vaping's not going to die because of it - the movement is growing world wide. Will less people convert to vaping because it's not in a gas station? Debatable. I'm vaping almost 2 years - never purchased the convenience store variety and never set foot in a vape shop until about 8 months ago.
    Provincial legislation over how businesses operate / products / etc - will always defer to the businesses operating in that province. And not on an individual basis. So the Province will give greater weight to the BC Vaping Association over individual stores who are not part of an association.

    Consumers only have a voice on consumer issues, or when consumers believe that business regulations harm them directly. The consumer voice is always subject to a litmus test of the "greater good".

    Vaping activism is unique - cause it combines both voices. But it's unlikely governments will recognize this unity when drawing up regulations. Activism helps to draw attention to their wayward ideas - and when both business and consumer agree - it's a stronger voice.

    ....keeping in mind that the BC legislature did not ask anyone - business or consumer - for their input prior to passing Bill 14. The health minister actually rejected any attempt at input. So they are throwing a bone out right now to the businesses - because they have to.


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