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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    The two shops seem to be giving out conflicting information and I'm guessing that they are owned or managed by the same person(s) as some of their FB posts are idenitical. If I weight their posts against the letter, though, it sounds like specialty vape shops can display and demonstrate products so long as vaping isn't part of the demonstration. Not sure how that translates into their web sites, though. One says that they'll soon offer online sales and demonstration videos whereas the other (via FB) says that they are under a virtual gag order and prohibited from pretty much everything. Anyone know the actual TRUTH or will we have to wait til the dust (and emotions) settle to find this out?
    Tiki, truth of the matter is no one knows because what we have is a very open ended piece of legislation open to all sorts of interpretation and for the government to dictate at will. It's scary.

    What we do know which is written in black and white and voted for by the majority is there will be restrictions on advertising and sales. You can take that to the bank.

    Ps. Not to you Tiki. That is how one ignores

  2. #22
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    Here is my prediction

    Whatever regulation body in the province is charged with enforcing this, they will start behaving much as HC has done. Except now you can't simply throw out the letter and ignore because they now wil have powers and the law behind them.

  3. #23
    Mentor Tiki's Avatar
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    To me and given that NS appears to have maintained the right to display and demonstrate within specialty vape shops, the most disturbing part is/would be the restriction on marketing or promotion as that's precisely what ecommerce web sites are considered --- marketing/sales brochures, whether interactive or not. Further complicated by the fact that there's no reliable way to ensure restricted adult access to the sites. The legislation doesn't specifically mention sites, so it's a ginormous question/concern in my mind..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evapers_Rob View Post
    Tiki, truth of the matter is no one knows because what we have is a very open ended piece of legislation open to all sorts of interpretation and for the government to dictate at will. It's scary.

    What we do know which is written in black and white and voted for by the majority is there will be restrictions on advertising and sales. You can take that to the bank.

    Ps. Not to you Tiki. That is how one ignores

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    To me and given that NS appears to have maintained the right to display and demonstrate within specialty vape shops, the most disturbing part is/would be the restriction on marketing or promotion as that's precisely what ecommerce web sites are considered --- marketing/sales brochures, whether interactive or not. Further complicated by the fact that there's no reliable way to ensure restricted adult access to the sites. The legislation doesn't specifically mention sites, so it's a ginormous question/concern in my mind..?
    Who knows really. It doesn't make any sense to target websites, yet allow stores to operate normally in terms of advertising and displaying products.

    More than likely any website of any NS isn't hosted in NS so really who's laws do they fall under?

    These are the questions we need answered, and now is the time to figure them out and work with government to understand. At one time it was the mandate of the ECTA to work with government to develop regulations - well that time has passed the regulations are here. Its now time to step up and work with government to implement and understand what they are. To that that we need a professional approach. Long has passed the time to protest like a high school student, start petitions like an episode of Degrassi, yell scream and stage hunger strikes or write sarcastic mellow dramatic facebook commentaries on "censorship". We need to move on and figure out how this all applies to our businesses.

    Are you up to that task ECTA? As you are the only organization at present with the folks that have the capacity to do this...

  5. #25
    Mentor Tiki's Avatar
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    Law has already established that where the web site is hosted is not relevant; ownership determines jurisdiction regarding law and gov't. In otherwords, while my web site development business web site is hosted in the US, the business is registered in SK and the owner (ie. me) resides in SK so SK laws, regulations, taxes, liability, etc apply, along with any federal laws.

    Unlike a B&M where individuals can be ID'ed at the entrance, folks can't be ID'ed online. Clicking a button to confirm doesn't cut it, as the courts have also already found (re issues of consent and content). So the gov't is going to have real issues to address if they have inadvertently given the green light to web sites and web site sales, while require proof of age for B&Ms.

    That said, I'm certainly not gonna give them the heads up! :-)

    As for the ECTA, I have a basic understanding of why they formed and what they intend to do. (Reminds me of the old HTML Writers Guild, re setting standards for web site development.) They seem more geared to manufacturers than retail outlets, given the standards, compliance, membership and fees structure. I really don't see them as useful or capable in respect to gov't legislation and subsequent compliance as that's really outside of their areana. At least that's my take on it...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evapers_Rob View Post
    Who knows really. It doesn't make any sense to target websites, yet allow stores to operate normally in terms of advertising and displaying products.

    More than likely any website of any NS isn't hosted in NS so really who's laws do they fall under?

    These are the questions we need answered, and now is the time to figure them out and work with government to understand. At one time it was the mandate of the ECTA to work with government to develop regulations - well that time has passed the regulations are here. Its now time to step up and work with government to implement and understand what they are. To that that we need a professional approach. Long has passed the time to protest like a high school student, start petitions like an episode of Degrassi, yell scream and stage hunger strikes or write sarcastic mellow dramatic facebook commentaries on "censorship". We need to move on and figure out how this all applies to our businesses.

    Are you up to that task ECTA? As you are the only organization at present with the folks that have the capacity to do this...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Law has already established that where the web site is hosted is not relevant; ownership determines jurisdiction regarding law and gov't. In otherwords, while my web site development business web site is hosted in the US, the business is registered in SK and the owner (ie. me) resides in SK so SK laws, regulations, taxes, liability, etc apply, along with any federal laws.
    Yes of course you can't get around laws by the location of the website... BUT... As in my case, my website isn't hosted in Ontario (yes almost irrelevant), my business is federally incorporated so its not technically a business of Ontario. For online our customers are from all across Canada. So what laws would my website fall under provincially?

    And it does matter where the website is hosted. For example if my website is hosted in the US or any other country they do not have to turn over information to a foreign government they do not fall under the jurisdiction of. Making it hard to prove I am selling products at all...

    And of course no where that I have seen has addressed online....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    Unlike a B&M where individuals can be ID'ed at the entrance, folks can't be ID'ed online. Clicking a button to confirm doesn't cut it, as the courts have also already found (re issues of consent and content). So the gov't is going to have real issues to address if they have inadvertently given the green light to web sites and web site sales, while require proof of age for B&Ms.
    Issues maybe, but you can just look to like industries. I can order Ontario wine online and have it delivered by mail. Same challenges there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
    As for the ECTA, I have a basic understanding of why they formed and what they intend to do. (Reminds me of the old HTML Writers Guild, re setting standards for web site development.) They seem more geared to manufacturers than retail outlets, given the standards, compliance, membership and fees structure. I really don't see them as useful or capable in respect to gov't legislation and subsequent compliance as that's really outside of their areana. At least that's my take on it...?
    An association of businesses is exactly who should be looking into the implementation of the laws. The onus is on the business to comply, not the consumer. Joe the vaper doesn't care how you can and can't advertise, he just want to know where he can get his products. Joe the vaper might also get sidetracked being upset over his right to vape - when the real issue at hand is how the law applies to business.

    Standards and compliance are kinda meaningless if they are not recognized by all. What we have here are laws (basically mandatory standards) and we need to find compliance with them. If this isn't the ideal fit and objective I'm not sure what is.

  7. #27
    Mentor Tiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evapers_Rob View Post
    Yes of course you can't get around laws by the location of the website... BUT... As in my case, my website isn't hosted in Ontario (yes almost irrelevant), my business is federally incorporated so its not technically a business of Ontario. For online our customers are from all across Canada. So what laws would my website fall under provincially?
    You would have declared a corporate office and, if memory serves (it's been some time since I dealt with federal incorporation), your business would be first and foremost governed by any laws etc of that province.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evapers_Rob View Post
    And it does matter where the website is hosted. For example if my website is hosted in the US or any other country they do not have to turn over information to a foreign government they do not fall under the jurisdiction of. Making it hard to prove I am selling products at all...

    And of course no where that I have seen has addressed online....
    That has little to nothing to do with the issue at hand. While Canada or any province within Canada could not compel the US company to turn over records, they could compel you to! :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by Evapers_Rob View Post
    Issues maybe, but you can just look to like industries. I can order Ontario wine online and have it delivered by mail. Same challenges there.
    Not quite the same situation as the provincial and federal gov'ts don't seem to have a problem with little kiddies seeing booze every day all day! They have decided that those same kids shouldn't see e-cigarettes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Evapers_Rob View Post
    An association of businesses is exactly who should be looking into the implementation of the laws. The onus is on the business to comply, not the consumer. Joe the vaper doesn't care how you can and can't advertise, he just want to know where he can get his products. Joe the vaper might also get sidetracked being upset over his right to vape - when the real issue at hand is how the law applies to business.

    Standards and compliance are kinda meaningless if they are not recognized by all. What we have here are laws (basically mandatory standards) and we need to find compliance with them. If this isn't the ideal fit and objective I'm not sure what is.
    I would agree except, as I said previously and perhaps a misperception of their site content, the ECTA seems geared more towards manufacturers:

    Provides your business with:
    A proven Industry Standard of Excellence
    One-on-one assistance in reaching full compliance
    Quality control procedures and auditing
    Compliance product testing and maintenance of relevant documentation
    An advocate working on your behalf with regulators to overcome issues facing the industry in Canada
    Future participation in Canada-wide events and cooperative small business services
    Provides your customers with:
    Confidence that your products are tested and safe
    Knowledge of your participation in working for a better future for Canadian Vapers


    As a retailer, like you, we are looking for guidance as these legislations are introduced, passed, and implemented. I don't see that happening so the alternative is to work with gov't one on one.

  8. #28
    Advanced Mentor amoca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evapers_Rob View Post
    Welcome to the forums Shai.

    I have to give you credit, I don't know a single person who could still shamelessly promote themselves like you after they had been completely defeated.

    For those of us, and there are a lot, who have advocating vaper's right before you knew what an e-cigarette was, we do spend a bit less time tooting our own horn especially after defeat. Maybe there is a lesson there but who am I to say?

    Thank you for the promised promotion of my business. Getting a business' name out there in this business is paramount, after that the customer is more than smart enough to figure out on their own if they want the sizzle or the steak. I think my opinions are widely know, as I put my banner right under them - rather than others speaking in the 3rd person.

    I do hope your doors open tomorrow, and continue to do so forever. That is what we have all fought for - yes all of us. As its a foreshadow of what will be happening in the rest of the country. I'd like to continue selling my 120 delicious e-juice blends in both VG and PG, with your 5th bottle free from our attentive staff in our convenient location with free parking. LOL

    Again, welcome to the forums Shai.
    I could be completely wrong, but based on the forum name, I think @Smoke-less is actually the vape shop in Halifax by the same name. The owner is Kyle? (I think...)

    I went to my local vape shop yesterday- yes it was open, and things looked the same as usual- they are allowed to display as it's adults only and vape only- no other products. They have removed the testers though, and no one vaped inside. I was told by the gentleman that he couldn't tell me if the usual Sunday sale was on, but I bought what I wanted (I really, really had to have that red eGo One) and left. It was business as usual.

    We "get" that you don't like Shai, Rob- you also don't like Switcher, and perhaps you just don't care for vaping Nova Scotians in general? But I think you might be welcoming the wrong person to the forum. Or I could be wrong, it's happened before once or twice, lol.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last edited by amoca; 06-01-2015 at 10:57 PM. Reason: deleted doubled post. I think.
    “Don’t only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven


  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by amoca View Post
    We "get" that you don't like Shai, Rob- you also don't like Switcher, and perhaps you just don't care for vaping Nova Scotians in general?
    We've got so many great customers in that province its unbelievable.

    NS has always been a hotbed for vaping in Canada, which may be why it was one of the first provinces targeted by this terrible legislation. Along with an any vibrant and active community comes its share of wack-o's - we have them here in Ontario too

    Maritimers would be the first people to share a chuckle over the notion they are all hated because of a pair of nutbar factor 10s

  10. #30
    Coach bogmonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amoca View Post
    I could be completely wrong, but based on the forum name, I think @Smoke-less is actually the vape shop in Halifax by the same name. The owner is Kyle? (I think...)
    You're right, Amoca. Shai owns The End Vapour Shop in New Glasgow and Truro. Kyle owns Smoke-less NS in Halifax and Dartmouth.

    Did you spend a lot of time prepping and presenting at law amendments, defending the rights of your business and customers Rob, or does all that smugness make it too much a burden to get out of the chair?

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